Most Americans support Obama's economic plan

[Jon Milliren]

Right?

http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2337343020090224

jon

[p62c61]

Of course they support it now because to most people it's a litany of
promises of what they think is going to be free stuff they'll be
getting.

Let's see how they feel about in the fourth quarter of the year when
unemployment and inflation is well into double digits, the federal
government has announced a 2 trillion dollar deficit for the previous
fiscal year, the DJIA is struggling to stay above 4500, when what's
left of their retirement accounts after they're taxed is disappearing,
store shelves are missing essential food items and news of riots and
social unrest that began during the summer in Europe is starting in
major US urban centers.

People think this administration wants to help make things better
because that's what they're telling them right now. By the time they
realize that his plan is simply step two in the plan Nancy Pelosi and
Harry Reid put into motion in January 2007 to destabilize the economy
and create chaos in order to scare people into surrendering their
civil liberties as part of the next step in the plan, it'll be too
late.

People who say nobody knows whether this plan will work are lying.
They know EXACTLY what the results will be and it's not what you think
or hope. Textbook Fascism/Progressivism always turns out the same.

The future looks a great deal like the past.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0205/p09s01-coop.htm

DJIA

November 4 2008 close: 9625.28
January 20 2009 close: 7949.09
February 25 2009 post
Obama speech to Congress: down 161 7189.65

[Jon Milliren]

Hey, glad you're not posting and running this time.

Post by p62c61
Of course they support it now because to most people it's a litany of
promises of what they think is going to be free stuff they'll be
getting.

I find it interesting that at lease some of them were in the Republican
camp last elections. Maybe they will get shaky when they see that fourth
quarter you describe below.

Post by p62c61
Let's see how they feel about in the fourth quarter of the year when
unemployment and inflation is well into double digits, the federal
government has announced a 2 trillion dollar deficit for the previous
fiscal year, the DJIA is struggling to stay above 4500, when what's
left of their retirement accounts after they're taxed is disappearing,
store shelves are missing essential food items and news of riots and
social unrest that began during the summer in Europe is starting in
major US urban centers.

Well, you start off ok, but then you describe a horror movie scenario
that I just don't see happening. For example, I think it's quite
possible that unemployment could approach 10% by the fourth quarter. I
also agree that the government will announce a massive deficit.

I don't think inflation will approach double digits anytime soon, and
probably would associate with a recovery that is not quite under control.

As for riots in the street and empty store shelves, well, I just don't
think that is going to happen. People on other less civilized discussion
forums predicted riots, etc... when Obama won the election, and that
didn't happen.

Post by p62c61
People think this administration wants to help make things better
because that's what they're telling them right now. By the time they
realize that his plan is simply step two in the plan Nancy Pelosi and
Harry Reid put into motion in January 2007 to destabilize the economy
and create chaos in order to scare people into surrendering their
civil liberties as part of the next step in the plan, it'll be too
late.

I know this administration wants to help make things better. We may
disagree on the ways this goal may be achieved (as we have for years
now) but I don't see any malevolance. I do not see Pelosi, Obama, or
Reid sitting in a dank castle basement wringing their hands like Mr.
Burns scheming about ways to make Americans poor and depriving them of
their civil liberties.

Post by p62c61
People who say nobody knows whether this plan will work are lying.
They know EXACTLY what the results will be and it's not what you think
or hope. Textbook Fascism/Progressivism always turns out the same.

I have 8 years of Clinton to compare with 8 years of Bush, and I have
to say that if this is textbook fascism/progressivism and it ends up how
the Clinton years ended up, I'm good with it. You know I didn't like
much of Bush's administration.

Post by p62c61
The future looks a great deal like the past.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0205/p09s01-coop.htm
DJIA
November 4 2008 close: 9625.28
January 20 2009 close: 7949.09
February 25 2009 post
Obama speech to Congress: down 161 7189.65

Also don't forget 10/1/07 closing at 14,087.55

Reading the csmonitor story now...

jon

[Jean Smith]

Post by Jon Milliren
Hey, glad you're not posting and running this time.

Post by p62c61
Of course they support it now because to most people it's a litany of
promises of what they think is going to be free stuff they'll be
getting.

I find it interesting that at lease some of them were in the Republican
camp last elections. Maybe they will get shaky when they see that fourth
quarter you describe below.

Post by p62c61
Let's see how they feel about in the fourth quarter of the year when
unemployment and inflation is well into double digits, the federal
government has announced a 2 trillion dollar deficit for the previous
fiscal year, the DJIA is struggling to stay above 4500, when what's
left of their retirement accounts after they're taxed is disappearing,
store shelves are missing essential food items and news of riots and
social unrest that began during the summer in Europe is starting in
major US urban centers.

Well, you start off ok, but then you describe a horror movie scenario
that I just don't see happening. For example, I think it's quite
possible that unemployment could approach 10% by the fourth quarter. I
also agree that the government will announce a massive deficit.
I don't think inflation will approach double digits anytime soon, and
probably would associate with a recovery that is not quite under control.
As for riots in the street and empty store shelves, well, I just don't
think that is going to happen. People on other less civilized discussion
forums predicted riots, etc... when Obama won the election, and that
didn't happen.

Post by p62c61
People think this administration wants to help make things better
because that's what they're telling them right now. By the time they
realize that his plan is simply step two in the plan Nancy Pelosi and
Harry Reid put into motion in January 2007 to destabilize the economy
and create chaos in order to scare people into surrendering their
civil liberties as part of the next step in the plan, it'll be too
late.

I know this administration wants to help make things better. We may
disagree on the ways this goal may be achieved (as we have for years
now) but I don't see any malevolance. I do not see Pelosi, Obama, or
Reid sitting in a dank castle basement wringing their hands like Mr.
Burns scheming about ways to make Americans poor and depriving them of
their civil liberties.

Post by p62c61
People who say nobody knows whether this plan will work are lying.
They know EXACTLY what the results will be and it's not what you think
or hope. Textbook Fascism/Progressivism always turns out the same.

I have 8 years of Clinton to compare with 8 years of Bush, and I have
to say that if this is textbook fascism/progressivism and it ends up how
the Clinton years ended up, I'm good with it. You know I didn't like
much of Bush's administration.

Post by p62c61
The future looks a great deal like the past.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0205/p09s01-coop.htm
DJIA
November 4 2008 close: 9625.28
January 20 2009 close: 7949.09
February 25 2009 post
Obama speech to Congress: down 161 7189.65

Also don't forget 10/1/07 closing at 14,087.55
Reading the csmonitor story now...
jon

An accelerating GDP drop of -6.2% in the fourth quarter of 2008, down from -.05
of the third quarter should be noted as it speaks to the economy rather than the
market players.

[Mike/Speeed]

Post by Jon Milliren
Right?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2337343020090224

Then most Americans are either, stupid, misinformed, or running scared.
So, Obama's going to repair the economy by punishing the wealthy, funding
"make work projects" with money we don't have, and giving tax breaks to
those who don't pay taxes? Gee whiz, paint me impressed!
Not to mention the enormous health care bureaucracy he plans on building for
the country.
Wow, wouldn't you have thought someone could have predicted this occurring?
Oh wait, I *did* predict this!
Imagine that?
I wonder who he'll blame when he runs the ship aground...
I gave him a month Jon & he's already made plans to double the current
deficit before he's tossed out of office. I fear for the future of my
children & grandchildren as my future has already been destroyed by both
parties.
Ever watch the movie Red Dawn?
Watch it again. As China & Russia grow stronger, America grows weaker. It's
a recipe for disaster.
Worried about radical Islam? We should, but we shouldn't ignore those two
Godless countries either...
Didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but, oh well.....

[Jon Milliren]

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Jon Milliren
Right?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2337343020090224

Then most Americans are either, stupid, misinformed, or running scared.

Hi Mike, how're you doing? Hope you and your family had good holidays.
Took me a while to reply because I've been sick. Yuck.

Now, on to business. I don't agree with your assessment of most
Americans. It's also interesting to note that a lot of Americans give
Obama a high approval rating, and yet less Americans approve of his
spending plans.

Post by Mike/Speeed
So, Obama's going to repair the economy by punishing the wealthy, funding
"make work projects" with money we don't have, and giving tax breaks to
those who don't pay taxes? Gee whiz, paint me impressed!

Well, I'd like to keep the spending on what you describe as make work
projects in perspective. The recently passed stimulus package is $789
billion. Around 35% of that was tax cuts for individuals and businesses
so half a trillion goes into the "make work projects" you don't appear
to like.

Now, a half trillion is a lot of money to be sure, but we are also
spending $400 billion for fannie/freddie, $160 billion for AIG, around
$350 billion from TARP for el banko del corrupto grande.

So, even with el diablo del socialista (sorry, I'm on a fake spanish
trip today) running the show, big business still gets three times the
welfare, bailout, tax breaks or whatever you want to call it.

At least the make work projects put regular folks to work if they need
at job.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Not to mention the enormous health care bureaucracy he plans on building for
the country.

Yeah, that is going to cost a lot too... Almost one billion dollars. I
don't know how I feel about the health care plan yet. I haven't seen
enough details to form an opinion.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Wow, wouldn't you have thought someone could have predicted this occurring?
Oh wait, I *did* predict this!

Your prediction would have been accurate had McCain won the presidency.
The big businesses would have got their bailout no matter what. McCain
would have put in tax breaks that probably would be more than $275
billion, and we likely would not have the half trillion stimulus in the
form of make work projects, etc... let's say there would be a savings of
$450 billion over Obamas plan. That still leaves over a trillion dollars
and close to two trillion in deficit spending this year.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Imagine that?
I wonder who he'll blame when he runs the ship aground...

I don't see the ship running aground.

Post by Mike/Speeed
I gave him a month Jon & he's already made plans to double the current
deficit before he's tossed out of office. I fear for the future of my
children & grandchildren as my future has already been destroyed by both
parties.

Doesn't Obama plan to halve the deficit by the end of his first term?
(yeah, I'll believe it when I see it too...) Sure, the deficit has
doubled this year, but these are extraordinary times. I want to see what
happens after we get through the economic crisis and head to recovery. I
certainly don't see him being tossed out of office. As a matter of fact,
I think that most Americans feel good about having some decisive, honest
and open leadership even if in principal they do not agree with what
he is doing.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Ever watch the movie Red Dawn?
Watch it again. As China & Russia grow stronger, America grows weaker. It's
a recipe for disaster.

Well, one could argue that by abandoning Europe in favor of wars in
Afghanistan in Iraq, we emboldened both Russia and Iran. Russia is
allowed to influence the former Soviet countries, and Iran no longer has
a sunni-led Iraq to balance the area.

Even so, I wouldn't overestimate Russia or China. Russia is suffering
an economic crisis far worse than we are, and China sooner or later will
have to stop artificially propping up it's currency. The whole world
depends on the USA for economic reasons, so it's no wonder the world is
loudly reacting to even whispers of "protectionism."

I've been saying to others I know that all we need to do to crush any
so-called superpower or petro-power is drive less. Look at Venezuela and
Iran. Their leadership stays in power by providing social services to
their people. Instead of taxing their people, they pay for these by
sales of nationalized oil. Now that oil prices have plummeted, they have
to deal with a social unrest as they can no longer provide the promised
services. Sorry for the tangent there, but I think it's especially
interesting to note how much these countries that hate us depend on our
dollars.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Worried about radical Islam? We should, but we shouldn't ignore those two
Godless countries either...
Didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but, oh well.....

No worries, it happens.

jon

[Jon Milliren]

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Jon Milliren
Right?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2337343020090224

Didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but, oh well.....

Also check out this newsday article I read.

http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-vpbud016053537mar01,0,6930525.story

jon

[Patrick Volk]

On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:24:57 -0500, "Mike/Speeed"

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Jon Milliren
Right?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2337343020090224

Then most Americans are either, stupid, misinformed, or running scared.

Oooohhhhkaaaaaay... Ad hominem debate. Wonderful.

Post by Mike/Speeed
So, Obama's going to repair the economy by punishing the wealthy, funding
"make work projects" with money we don't have, and giving tax breaks to
those who don't pay taxes? Gee whiz, paint me impressed!
Not to mention the enormous health care bureaucracy he plans on building for
the country.

Taken from the right-wing hymnal of chants. He appears to be
continuing the throwing of money at banks... I'm not so sure that's a
good idea.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Wow, wouldn't you have thought someone could have predicted this occurring?
Oh wait, I *did* predict this!

Keep chanting about what the left is going to do long enough, you'll
see it eventually.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Imagine that?
I wonder who he'll blame when he runs the ship aground...

Curious... The ship was scraping bottom before he came in office, but
not the president's fault. Now, 90 days in, and it's all the
presidents' fault.

Post by Mike/Speeed
I gave him a month Jon & he's already made plans to double the current
deficit before he's tossed out of office. I fear for the future of my
children & grandchildren as my future has already been destroyed by both
parties.
Ever watch the movie Red Dawn?
Watch it again. As China & Russia grow stronger, America grows weaker. It's
a recipe for disaster.

China, because of their currency hijinks is poised for some bad
happenings. Everybody they make stuff for is going down, so they're
going to be awash in money. They won't be able to equalize unless they
adjust their currency. That will bring less money than insane
speculation (like Japan).

Post by Mike/Speeed
Worried about radical Islam? We should, but we shouldn't ignore those two
Godless countries either...
Didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but, oh well.....

The economy scares me.

Interest rates can't go lower. (Non-inflation/deflation)
Precious metals are pretty high. (Inflation)
Unemployment up (Deflation)

Inflation is a result, but it's also a check. Inflation effectively
reduces debt, and encourages investments. Anybody who has money now
won't invest, because they're expecting inflation around the corner.

I'm thinking this may be deflation. Companies can't make money now by
selling things, and giving them money won't change that. Can't make
money by investing in things, so giving them money won't change that.
Giving people money to cover their mortgage won't help them, because
they probably don't have job.

Didn't work for Bush, won't work for Obama. The idea of a war helping
an economy was undone because inflation was unnaturally kept low.
Speculation went, until the bubble burst.

Russia is probably more religious than the US. The Soviets could never
get rid of the church.

[Mike/Speeed]

Post by Patrick Volk
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:24:57 -0500, "Mike/Speeed"

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Jon Milliren
Right?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2337343020090224

Then most Americans are either, stupid, misinformed, or running scared.

Oooohhhhkaaaaaay... Ad hominem debate. Wonderful.

"Debate"? LOL. This isn't a contest, slick.
Anyone who thinks that spending money we don't have on pork barreled crap
will save our economy in my opinion is either stupid, misinformed, or so
desperate that they would latch onto ANYTHING.
You want to micro-analyze the situation? Be my guest, but make sure you use
plenty of Vaseline.

Post by Patrick Volk

Post by Mike/Speeed
So, Obama's going to repair the economy by punishing the wealthy, funding
"make work projects" with money we don't have, and giving tax breaks to
those who don't pay taxes? Gee whiz, paint me impressed!
Not to mention the enormous health care bureaucracy he plans on building for
the country.

Taken from the right-wing hymnal of chants. He appears to be
continuing the throwing of money at banks... I'm not so sure that's a
good idea.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Wow, wouldn't you have thought someone could have predicted this occurring?
Oh wait, I *did* predict this!

Keep chanting about what the left is going to do long enough, you'll
see it eventually.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Imagine that?
I wonder who he'll blame when he runs the ship aground...

Curious... The ship was scraping bottom before he came in office, but
not the president's fault. Now, 90 days in, and it's all the
presidents' fault.

Where did I say ANYTHING about that what has happened so far was Obama's
fault?
I am criticizing his actions. The results of those actions will speak for
themselves soon enough.
He wants an enormous federal bureaucracy to handle health care because he
claims high healthcare costs are ruining the economy. Do you actually buy
that crap?
Bush thought military spending would reignite the economy, Obama is going
the socialist route. Both are/were wrong. And we're left here to suck on it.

Post by Patrick Volk

Post by Mike/Speeed
I gave him a month Jon & he's already made plans to double the current
deficit before he's tossed out of office. I fear for the future of my
children & grandchildren as my future has already been destroyed by both
parties.
Ever watch the movie Red Dawn?
Watch it again. As China & Russia grow stronger, America grows weaker. It's
a recipe for disaster.

China, because of their currency hijinks is poised for some bad
happenings. Everybody they make stuff for is going down, so they're
going to be awash in money. They won't be able to equalize unless they
adjust their currency. That will bring less money than insane
speculation (like Japan).

As long as someone is willing to lend thier money to someone else, someone
else is going to be willing to take it. Japan did it back in the 90s, we are
doing it now. Both will yield about the same results.

Post by Patrick Volk

Post by Mike/Speeed
Worried about radical Islam? We should, but we shouldn't ignore those two
Godless countries either...
Didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but, oh well.....

The economy scares me.

As it should.

Post by Patrick Volk
Interest rates can't go lower. (Non-inflation/deflation)
Precious metals are pretty high. (Inflation)
Unemployment up (Deflation)

It's the result of having a consumption only based economy. If all you can
do is buy, what happens when you run out of money? In this case, they just
print more and let China underwrite it.
Average Americans did wrong when they spent too much. Now they are wrong for
saving too much.
What has happened to the economy wasn't the average American's fault. We
saved, we invested, we paid our bills. We didn't go into debt. We didn't
borrow money we had no way to pay back. We didn't cause this mess. Greedy
bankers, scrupulous business men, uneducated citizens & ignorant politicians
caused this mess. The Federal Reserve however (and Allan Greenspan
specifically) should be right up front of the blame line. They've been
pumping up the economy since the early 90s. Ask any of a dozen top
economists & you'll get that many theories as to why we have this problem,
and that many more as which way is best to fix it.
No one knows what the right thing is to do.
We don't have the money, yet we keep on spending. For some odd reason, that
doesn't strike me as the best way to proceed...
In the past year, I have lost half of my retirement fund. Not because I was
greedy, because I tried to do the right thing. I saved, I scrimped, I went
without. I invested in mostly low to mid risk funds. I made good (not
great) money for a while, but I never got greedy.
When lending institutions and big business fuck up, they just ask for more
money. When I fuck up, I just have to sit there and eat it.
Now Obama has the solution. Right.

Post by Patrick Volk
Inflation is a result, but it's also a check. Inflation effectively
reduces debt, and encourages investments. Anybody who has money now
won't invest, because they're expecting inflation around the corner.
I'm thinking this may be deflation. Companies can't make money now by
selling things, and giving them money won't change that. Can't make
money by investing in things, so giving them money won't change that.
Giving people money to cover their mortgage won't help them, because
they probably don't have job.
Didn't work for Bush, won't work for Obama. The idea of a war helping
an economy was undone because inflation was unnaturally kept low.
Speculation went, until the bubble burst.
Russia is probably more religious than the US. The Soviets could never
get rid of the church.

Never been to Russia, eh?

[Patrick Volk]

On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 19:41:46 -0500, "Mike/Speeed"

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Patrick Volk
On Fri, 27 Feb 2009 12:24:57 -0500, "Mike/Speeed"

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Jon Milliren
Right?
http://uk.reuters.com/article/marketsNewsUS/idUKN2337343020090224

Then most Americans are either, stupid, misinformed, or running scared.

Oooohhhhkaaaaaay... Ad hominem debate. Wonderful.

"Debate"? LOL. This isn't a contest, slick.
Anyone who thinks that spending money we don't have on pork barreled crap
will save our economy in my opinion is either stupid, misinformed, or so
desperate that they would latch onto ANYTHING.

At least the pork barrel crap creates jobs... *shrug*

Post by Mike/Speeed
Where did I say ANYTHING about that what has happened so far was Obama's
fault?
I am criticizing his actions. The results of those actions will speak for
themselves soon enough.
He wants an enormous federal bureaucracy to handle health care because he
claims high healthcare costs are ruining the economy. Do you actually buy
that crap?

No.

Post by Mike/Speeed
Bush thought military spending would reignite the economy, Obama is going
the socialist route. Both are/were wrong. And we're left here to suck on it.

We'll see. Does the president dictate, or the situation? I think the
situation dictates more.

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Patrick Volk

Post by Mike/Speeed
I gave him a month Jon & he's already made plans to double the current
deficit before he's tossed out of office. I fear for the future of my
children & grandchildren as my future has already been destroyed by both
parties.
Ever watch the movie Red Dawn?
Watch it again. As China & Russia grow stronger, America grows weaker. It's
a recipe for disaster.

China, because of their currency hijinks is poised for some bad
happenings. Everybody they make stuff for is going down, so they're
going to be awash in money. They won't be able to equalize unless they
adjust their currency. That will bring less money than insane
speculation (like Japan).

As long as someone is willing to lend thier money to someone else, someone
else is going to be willing to take it. Japan did it back in the 90s, we are
doing it now. Both will yield about the same results.

Deflation? Wow.. I hope not.. Japan I don't think has fully recovered
from that. The scary part is, they had a favorable balance of trade.

That will happen to China, and communists will say "I told you so".
Well, at least they had time to buy the Benzs they'll be driving for
the next 50 years.

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Patrick Volk

Post by Mike/Speeed
Worried about radical Islam? We should, but we shouldn't ignore those two
Godless countries either...
Didn't mean to turn this into a rant, but, oh well.....

The economy scares me.

As it should.

Post by Patrick Volk
Interest rates can't go lower. (Non-inflation/deflation)
Precious metals are pretty high. (Inflation)
Unemployment up (Deflation)

It's the result of having a consumption only based economy. If all you can
do is buy, what happens when you run out of money? In this case, they just
print more and let China underwrite it.

All economics is driven by buying and selling. You don't have to print
more. Each dollar makes its' way around the economy something like 9
times at least.

If everybody has money, supply and demand make prices go up. Or, you
rebalance by finding a trading partner like China (who is able to keep
production in step with demand).

Post by Mike/Speeed
Average Americans did wrong when they spent too much. Now they are wrong for
saving too much.
What has happened to the economy wasn't the average American's fault. We
saved, we invested, we paid our bills. We didn't go into debt. We didn't
borrow money we had no way to pay back. We didn't cause this mess. Greedy
bankers, scrupulous business men, uneducated citizens & ignorant politicians
caused this mess. The Federal Reserve however (and Allan Greenspan
specifically) should be right up front of the blame line. They've been
pumping up the economy since the early 90s. Ask any of a dozen top
economists & you'll get that many theories as to why we have this problem,
and that many more as which way is best to fix it.

Average Americans had more to do with it than you think. Do you have a
401k? If you do, you're indirectly part of the problem. Where do you
think all these idiots got money from?

The Fed was a contributing factor, because they squashed inflation.
Everybody wants their 401k to grow 10% a year, and inflation to be 1%.
People are awash in money, and it goes into investments. Land is an
investment.

And I don't think it's the uneducated ones to blame. It's the educated
ones...

Can't blame the banks, but I don't think they should get rewarded for
their short-sightedness. Here's food for thought: If the banks fail,
who loses? The people that put their savings into it are covered up to
$250K through FDIC. The people that had loans might have them go away
(or get liquidated). The tards running the system can jump off and
wreck another system.

No, the people who truly lose are the people who bought stock in the
company. Not directly mostly, but indirectly through a mutual fund.

Post by Mike/Speeed
No one knows what the right thing is to do.
We don't have the money, yet we keep on spending. For some odd reason, that
doesn't strike me as the best way to proceed...

When unemployment is high, public works is a good option. Labor is
cheap, and plentiful.

When debt is high, inflation works. It's just not sustainable.

Post by Mike/Speeed
In the past year, I have lost half of my retirement fund. Not because I was
greedy, because I tried to do the right thing. I saved, I scrimped, I went
without. I invested in mostly low to mid risk funds. I made good (not
great) money for a while, but I never got greedy.

Nothing the matter with being greedy. If you hear the end of
commercials, all investments carry some degree of risk. Also, unless
you're retiring in the next 5-10 years, it's monopoly money at this
point... Not real. Market should rebound by then.

Post by Mike/Speeed
When lending institutions and big business fuck up, they just ask for more
money. When I fuck up, I just have to sit there and eat it.
Now Obama has the solution. Right.

The fucked up part is, the companies have been surviving for a while
not so much by good business, but by good accounting. Buy a company,
load it with debt, and sell it off. Books claim record profit, and the
CEO gets another solid gold toilet.

Post by Mike/Speeed

Post by Patrick Volk
Inflation is a result, but it's also a check. Inflation effectively
reduces debt, and encourages investments. Anybody who has money now
won't invest, because they're expecting inflation around the corner.
I'm thinking this may be deflation. Companies can't make money now by
selling things, and giving them money won't change that. Can't make
money by investing in things, so giving them money won't change that.
Giving people money to cover their mortgage won't help them, because
they probably don't have job.
Didn't work for Bush, won't work for Obama. The idea of a war helping
an economy was undone because inflation was unnaturally kept low.
Speculation went, until the bubble burst.
Russia is probably more religious than the US. The Soviets could never
get rid of the church.

Never been to Russia, eh?

Why, have you? Ever see that big ass church next to the Kremlin?
Petrograd?